[ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT frames encountered in OEP project

[Willem-Jan Veen]

Hi Oliver,

Thank you for the effort. I shall try to generalize your solution for our conversion and test if it resolves the incidents that have been reported to us. As soon as I have a stable solution, I'll report back to you.

Kind regards,
Willem-Jan Veen

On Dec 22, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:

> 
> Hi Willen-Jan,
> 
> attached you find two version which are stable in their layout regarding
> the area of the picture with the two descriptions - one above and one
> below.
> (See attached file: KIO-experiment-stable-01.odt)(See attached file:
> KIO-experiment-stable-02.odt)
> 
> These are the changes which I applied:
> - the change which you have made, mentioned below, to the text frames in
> the left page border around the interesting area.
> Anchoring at-character and horizontal position the text frame in relative
> to the anchor character gives better control regarding horizontal
> positioning, because the paragraph top may be 'extended' by other object
> which overlay with the paragraph.
> - the picture and its two description are now anchored as-character each in
> its own paragraph. The paragraph are tied together by setting 'keep with
> next paragraph at the first and the second paragraph.
> Anchoring an object (text frame, picture, drawing object, embedded object)
> as-character treats the object as a character. Such an object is like a big
> letter - simply spoken. Such an anchoring avoids problems regarding text
> flow and overlapping. the object flow as characters and overlapping with
> each can not happen as character can not overlap each other.
> 
> The second version "...stable-02.odt" is the same as the first one except
> one change. The paragraphs left indent has been from 0cm to -6cm.
> 
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> 
> --
> Advisory Software Engineer
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> IBM Deutschland
> Beim Strohhause 17
> 20097 Hamburg
> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
> E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
> HRB 243294
> 
> 
> 
> From:	Willem-Jan Veen <willem at lunatech.com>
> To:	Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM at IBMDE
> Cc:	ODF Plugfest mailinglist <plugtest at opendocsociety.org>
> Date:	24.11.2011 11:04
> Subject:	Re: [ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT frames
>            encountered in OEP project
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Olivier,
> 
> As I promised yesterday, a short explanation of the odd behaviour that I
> experienced after some experimenting in openoffice on the
> KIO-experiment.odt document, that I gave you during the plugfest. I've made
> a few screen shots to visualize the steps I made to recreate this odd
> behaviour.
> 
> 1. open the KIO-experiment.odt and scroll to the page where to change the
> frame floating behaviour (KIO-experiment-initial-rendering.png)
> 2. enter the frame dialog for the frame with text box and change the
> anchor-type into "to-character" and the vertical relation to
> "char" (KIO-experiment-changing-frame-settings.png)
> 3. close the frame dialog with [ok] and notice the improved rendering of
> the frame with text box
> (KIO-experiment-correct-rendering-after-frame-changes.png)
> 4. save the document and force a reload with the menu option found in
> openoffice file menu (KIO-experiment-reload-modified-document.png)
> 5. after reloading the document, notice the unexpected altered page-layout
> (KIO-experiment-broken-rendering-after-reload.png)
> 
> I had the same behaviour using neo-office. Both experiments where done on a
> Mac Os (Lion).
> 
> After this experiment I stopped with experiments to improve the flow of
> frames. I'm of course still very interested in a solution that resolves the
> issues we have when frames start to flow to another page, both for the
> images with a title above and comments below as well as for margin texts
> that are encapsulated in a frame. I'm also curious what caused the observed
> behaviour in the described experiments. Note that the behaviour is
> reproducable in attached document.
> 
> Finally, I've similar issues with the flowing of lines in ODT documents,
> but I'll devise another simple document to demonstrate this scenario.
> 
> Thanks for all the help you may give.
> 
> Regards,
> Willem-Jan
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment.odt" deleted by Oliver-Rainer
> Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-initial-rendering.png" deleted by Oliver-Rainer
> Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-changing-frame-settings.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-correct-rendering-after-frame-changes.png"
> deleted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-reload-modified-document.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> 
> 
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-broken-rendering-after-reload.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
> 
> On Nov 23, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
> 
>> Hi Willem-Jan,
>> 
>> we already had the possibility to talk at the end of the ODF Plugfest in
>> Gouda, NL last week about your layout problems in some detail.
>> I think I have already given you some hints in order to get more control
>> about the layout regarding the flow of text frames in OpenOffice.org
> resp.
>> Apache OpenOffice.
>> 
>> As promised I am planning to followup on your problems in more detail
> when
>> I have some resources left. Hopefully, I have some time in the next week.
>> I hope it is ok for the rest of the mailing list subscribers, if I post
> the
>> followup on this mailing list, because - as far as I have seen - the
>> problems are more or less related to applications which base on
>> OpenOffice.org code than they are related to ODF.
>> If not, please let me know.
>> 
>> Willem-Jan: Do not hestitate to ping me, if you have
> questions/comments/...
>> 
>> 
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>> 
>> --
>> Advisory Software Engineer
>> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> 
>> IBM Deutschland
>> Beim Strohhause 17
>> 20097 Hamburg
>> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
>> E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
>> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> 
>> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzender des
>> Aufsichtsrats: Martin Jetter
>> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht
> Stuttgart,
>> HRB 243294
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:		 Willem-Jan Veen <willem at lunatech.com>
>> To:		 plugtest at opendocsociety.org
>> Date:		 18.11.2011 10:45
>> Subject:		 [ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT
> frames
>>           encountered in OEP project
>> Sent by:		 plugtest-bounces at opendocsociety.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The problem case with frames concern for instance the inclusion of an
> image
>> with a title on top and additional remarks on the bottom. In the specific
>> situation that the image doesn't fit on the remainder of the page, it
>> automatically floats to the next page (what is good), but the positioning
>> of the frames with title, image and remarks become scrambled.
>> 
>> I've attached a small ODT file which demonstrates this behaviour. It
> first
>> shows a image with title and remarks which are rendered correctly
> position
>> to each other. A page further, in identical example is presented but this
>> time the image didn't fit on the remainder of the page and floated to the
>> next page. You can immediately see the resulting visual effects when
> opened
>> in openoffice or neo-office.
>> 
>> Please note, that the ODT isn't correctly zipped. The original ODT was
> much
>> larger, so I unzipped de ODT, manually removed as much content as
> possible
>> while keeping the problem case intact. I then zipped the ODT quickly by
>> hand without placing the file mime type as-is on the starting offset. In
>> our experience, this doesn't pose a problem for rendering such a document
>> in a word processor. The real system does do the final zip process
>> according to specification.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Willem-Jan Veen
>> 
>> [attachment "KIO-exoeriment.odt" deleted by Oliver-Rainer
>> Wittmann/Germany/IBM] _______________________________________________
>> Plugtest mailing list
>> Plugtest at opendocsociety.org
>> http://lists.opendocsociety.org/mailman/listinfo/plugtest
>> 
> 
> <KIO-experiment-stable-01.odt><KIO-experiment-stable-02.odt>