[ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT frames encountered in OEP project

[Oliver-Rainer Wittmann]

Hi Willem-Jan,

a small, but meaningful correction to my text:
Please read (replacing 'horizontal' by 'vertical')
Anchoring at-character and vertical position the text frame in relative
to the anchor character gives better control regarding vertical
positioning, because the paragraph top may be 'extended' by other object
which overlay with the paragraph.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann

--
Advisory Software Engineer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IBM Deutschland
Beim Strohhause 17
20097 Hamburg
Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
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IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
HRB 243294



From:	Willem-Jan Veen <willem at lunatech.com>
To:	Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM at IBMDE
Cc:	ODF Plugfest mailinglist <plugtest at opendocsociety.org>
Date:	22.12.2011 14:59
Subject:	Re: [ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT frames
            encountered in OEP project



Hi Oliver,

Thank you for the effort. I shall try to generalize your solution for our
conversion and test if it resolves the incidents that have been reported to
us. As soon as I have a stable solution, I'll report back to you.

Kind regards,
Willem-Jan Veen

On Dec 22, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:

>
> Hi Willen-Jan,
>
> attached you find two version which are stable in their layout regarding
> the area of the picture with the two descriptions - one above and one
> below.
> (See attached file: KIO-experiment-stable-01.odt)(See attached file:
> KIO-experiment-stable-02.odt)
>
> These are the changes which I applied:
> - the change which you have made, mentioned below, to the text frames in
> the left page border around the interesting area.
> Anchoring at-character and horizontal position the text frame in relative
> to the anchor character gives better control regarding horizontal
> positioning, because the paragraph top may be 'extended' by other object
> which overlay with the paragraph.
> - the picture and its two description are now anchored as-character each
in
> its own paragraph. The paragraph are tied together by setting 'keep with
> next paragraph at the first and the second paragraph.
> Anchoring an object (text frame, picture, drawing object, embedded
object)
> as-character treats the object as a character. Such an object is like a
big
> letter - simply spoken. Such an anchoring avoids problems regarding text
> flow and overlapping. the object flow as characters and overlapping with
> each can not happen as character can not overlap each other.
>
> The second version "...stable-02.odt" is the same as the first one except
> one change. The paragraphs left indent has been from 0cm to -6cm.
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>
> --
> Advisory Software Engineer
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> IBM Deutschland
> Beim Strohhause 17
> 20097 Hamburg
> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
> E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht
Stuttgart,
> HRB 243294
>
>
>
> From:		 Willem-Jan Veen <willem at lunatech.com>
> To:		 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM at IBMDE
> Cc:		 ODF Plugfest mailinglist <plugtest at opendocsociety.org>
> Date:		 24.11.2011 11:04
> Subject:		 Re: [ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case with ODT
frames
>            encountered in OEP project
>
>
>
> Hi Olivier,
>
> As I promised yesterday, a short explanation of the odd behaviour that I
> experienced after some experimenting in openoffice on the
> KIO-experiment.odt document, that I gave you during the plugfest. I've
made
> a few screen shots to visualize the steps I made to recreate this odd
> behaviour.
>
> 1. open the KIO-experiment.odt and scroll to the page where to change the
> frame floating behaviour (KIO-experiment-initial-rendering.png)
> 2. enter the frame dialog for the frame with text box and change the
> anchor-type into "to-character" and the vertical relation to
> "char" (KIO-experiment-changing-frame-settings.png)
> 3. close the frame dialog with [ok] and notice the improved rendering of
> the frame with text box
> (KIO-experiment-correct-rendering-after-frame-changes.png)
> 4. save the document and force a reload with the menu option found in
> openoffice file menu (KIO-experiment-reload-modified-document.png)
> 5. after reloading the document, notice the unexpected altered
page-layout
> (KIO-experiment-broken-rendering-after-reload.png)
>
> I had the same behaviour using neo-office. Both experiments where done on
a
> Mac Os (Lion).
>
> After this experiment I stopped with experiments to improve the flow of
> frames. I'm of course still very interested in a solution that resolves
the
> issues we have when frames start to flow to another page, both for the
> images with a title above and comments below as well as for margin texts
> that are encapsulated in a frame. I'm also curious what caused the
observed
> behaviour in the described experiments. Note that the behaviour is
> reproducable in attached document.
>
> Finally, I've similar issues with the flowing of lines in ODT documents,
> but I'll devise another simple document to demonstrate this scenario.
>
> Thanks for all the help you may give.
>
> Regards,
> Willem-Jan
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment.odt" deleted by Oliver-Rainer
> Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-initial-rendering.png" deleted by
Oliver-Rainer
> Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-changing-frame-settings.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-correct-rendering-after-frame-changes.png"
> deleted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-reload-modified-document.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
>
>
> [attachment "KIO-experiment-broken-rendering-after-reload.png" deleted by
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann/Germany/IBM]
>
> On Nov 23, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>
>> Hi Willem-Jan,
>>
>> we already had the possibility to talk at the end of the ODF Plugfest in
>> Gouda, NL last week about your layout problems in some detail.
>> I think I have already given you some hints in order to get more control
>> about the layout regarding the flow of text frames in OpenOffice.org
> resp.
>> Apache OpenOffice.
>>
>> As promised I am planning to followup on your problems in more detail
> when
>> I have some resources left. Hopefully, I have some time in the next
week.
>> I hope it is ok for the rest of the mailing list subscribers, if I post
> the
>> followup on this mailing list, because - as far as I have seen - the
>> problems are more or less related to applications which base on
>> OpenOffice.org code than they are related to ODF.
>> If not, please let me know.
>>
>> Willem-Jan: Do not hestitate to ping me, if you have
> questions/comments/...
>>
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>>
>> --
>> Advisory Software Engineer
>>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>>
>> IBM Deutschland
>> Beim Strohhause 17
>> 20097 Hamburg
>> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
>> E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
>>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>>
>> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzender des
>> Aufsichtsrats: Martin Jetter
>> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht
> Stuttgart,
>> HRB 243294
>>
>>
>>
>> From:		 		  Willem-Jan Veen <willem at lunatech.com>
>> To:		 		  plugtest at opendocsociety.org
>> Date:		 		  18.11.2011 10:45
>> Subject:		 		  [ODFPlugtest] Gouda plugfest: problem case
with ODT
> frames
>>           encountered in OEP project
>> Sent by:		 		  plugtest-bounces at opendocsociety.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The problem case with frames concern for instance the inclusion of an
> image
>> with a title on top and additional remarks on the bottom. In the
specific
>> situation that the image doesn't fit on the remainder of the page, it
>> automatically floats to the next page (what is good), but the
positioning
>> of the frames with title, image and remarks become scrambled.
>>
>> I've attached a small ODT file which demonstrates this behaviour. It
> first
>> shows a image with title and remarks which are rendered correctly
> position
>> to each other. A page further, in identical example is presented but
this
>> time the image didn't fit on the remainder of the page and floated to
the
>> next page. You can immediately see the resulting visual effects when
> opened
>> in openoffice or neo-office.
>>
>> Please note, that the ODT isn't correctly zipped. The original ODT was
> much
>> larger, so I unzipped de ODT, manually removed as much content as
> possible
>> while keeping the problem case intact. I then zipped the ODT quickly by
>> hand without placing the file mime type as-is on the starting offset. In
>> our experience, this doesn't pose a problem for rendering such a
document
>> in a word processor. The real system does do the final zip process
>> according to specification.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Willem-Jan Veen
>>
>> [attachment "KIO-exoeriment.odt" deleted by Oliver-Rainer
>> Wittmann/Germany/IBM] _______________________________________________
>> Plugtest mailing list
>> Plugtest at opendocsociety.org
>> http://lists.opendocsociety.org/mailman/listinfo/plugtest
>>
>
> <KIO-experiment-stable-01.odt><KIO-experiment-stable-02.odt>