[Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
robert_weir at us.ibm.com
robert_weir at us.ibm.com
Mon Jun 25 15:22:54 CEST 2012
This is the plugfest organizers list. This is where we organize
plugfests. If a different list name would make this more obvious, I'm
open to suggestions.
Since we cannot undo this error, can someone at least outline what was
proposed and/or agreed upon? Most of us here are still in the dark and
hearing this for the first time.
-Rob
plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl wrote on 06/24/2012 03:43:30 PM:
> From: "Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
> To: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org, Dennis.hamilton at acm.org,
> Date: 06/24/2012 03:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> Sent by: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
>
> Dennis,
>
> I re-parsed my emails. Lots of people who are on this mailing list
> were included in the first discussion; not all of them were. I now
> realize the "first" discussion took place on an OpenForum Europe
> mailing list (and I really don't know why it did, as it should not
> take place there) but it should not be a reason to claim no one was
> in the know. IBM people were on that list (the OFE one), Michiel
> was, others were. You are not on this OFE mailing list, granted; but
> for many of us this discussion started several two or three weeks
> ago. I'm sorry if that seems to fall in your inbox abruptly. This
> being said, I do reiterate that the comments made by some about the
> so-called neutrality are unwelcome, uncalled for, and pathetic.
>
> Best,
> Charles.
>
>
> Le 24 juin 2012 à 21:32, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
>
> > Charles,
> >
> > I am only on this Plugtest list. That is all I see.
> >
> > If there is fragmentation of where this happens and whatever
> discussions there are, that is an unfortunate contribution to the
> opportunity for misunderstanding and miscommunication that has arisen
here.
> >
> > I have only seen what is discussed on this list, the one for
> Plugtest organizing.
> >
> > PS: I have reduced the CC list on this reply because the list
> robot is unhappy about excessive numbers of addressees and requires
> moderation in that case. If that means CC to folks who are not
> subscribers to this list will be lost, that is unfortunate.
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:57
> > To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> > Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; 'Louis Suarez-Potts';
> 'Alberto Barrionuevo'; 'Michiel Leenaars'; 'Arthur Buijs'; 'Sophie
> Gautier'; 'Olivier Hallot'; 'Italo Vignoli'; 'Donald Harbison'
> > Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > Are you on all the Plugfest lists that I am subscribed? I would
> not see why you wouldn't. I specifically was invited to organize a
> plugfest in Paris by Bart (I'm sure that would have raised some
> eyebrows as well), but did not get any answer from potential venues.
> Then I made the *proposal* that the LibreOffice Conference host the
> plugfest in Berlin. So yes, there was a proposal. It was discussed,
> it seemed welcome, but of course nothing was finalized (hence the
> rub with the conference website and the press article) and we were/
> are supposed to have a conference call about it this week, for which
> I was supposed to invite the plugfest organization committee and
> schedule the call. Now I don't know whether that would still fly, it
> seems that we have to wait for IBM to grace us with its stamp of
> approval or its collar of shame. As things stand here, I'm still
> waiting for this answer; not that we wait for IBM's authorization
> for anything, but obviously, we're not going to organize a plugfest
> if there were no plans by the OpenDoc Society to have one in the
> first place. Again, it's a pity that the same rotten apples block
> and question everything that TDF does or does not.
> >
> > Best,
> > Charles.
> >
> >
> > Le 24 juin 2012 à 20:23, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> >
> >> Charles,
> >>
> >> First, congratulations on your marriage. The wedding photograph
> is wonderful.
> >>
> >> I think the breakdown here has to do with the fact that no
> proposal was made to Plugtest organizers and, as far as I can tell,
> to the OpenDocument Society. In contrast, the offer from Microsoft
> was made to this list. It was discussed, eventually accepted, and
> then there was follow-up here, as well as conference calls for
> organization, etc. Development of other Plugtests, including the
> concurrent one at Orvieto, had similar visibility.
> >>
> >> That level of communication was missing in this instance. This
> happens when such is the case.
> >>
> >> - Dennis
> >>
> >> PS: I have not seen anything about the press here. The only
> indication that has been reported on this list is the LO 2012
> Conference announcement and CFP itself.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com]
> >> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:06
> >> To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> >> Cc: Louis Suarez-Potts; Alberto Barrionuevo; Michiel Leenaars;
> plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; Arthur Buijs; Sophie
> Gautier; Olivier Hallot; Italo Vignoli; Donald Harbison
> >> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> >>
> >> Hello ,
> >>
> >> I think there must have been a miscommunication from our side and
> from the press. The way I can describe it is that the idea of
> hosting an ODF Plugfest was discussed a bit on the LibreOffice
> marketing list and as our website team had to open up the conference
> website for the LibreOffice Conference, they simply copied and
> pasted the content of what was discussed on the marketing list and
> put it on the beta website. From that point on, the press (the H)
> wrote an article based on it. I will see that the mention of an ODF
> Plugfest gets deleted, since that seems to be interpreted as a grave
> casus belli by some.
> >>
> >> As for the neutrality... did we organize a plugfest with
> Microsoft and at Microsoft HQ in Brussels? Because if now some here
> are complaining that it is a shame that TDF hosts one, then you guys
> are really losing it by any measurement. I'm appalled that such
> comments could be made. Yes, we're supposed to be an united front.
> But it seems that some in this committee will not let one good deed
> go unpunished. I am frankly becoming sick and tired of this. There's
> no neutrality here; there are multiple implementations of ODF, and
> I'm sure we agree that it's a good thing, don't we? So the
> neutrality argument is weird. It seems to always go one way (TDF
> should NOT be allowed to organize such events), and it's always
> raised by the same people.
> >>
> >> Here's my proposal: how about you guys figure the best course of
> action in between your bruised egos, your hatred feelings and your
> secret agendas and come back to me some time this week?
> >> TDF will then devise what to do with the proposal we made.
> >>
> >>
> >> Charles.
> >>
> >> Le 24 juin 2012 à 19:40, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> >>
> >>> At the same time, it is undesirable to conflict with conferences
> where many of the developers will be attending with respect to their
> own products, participating in conference development, etc. It now
> looks like this:
> >>>
> >>> 2012-10-16/19 Berlin, LibreOffice 2012 Conference
> >>> 2012-10-18/19 Santiago de Compostela, Spain, LSWC 12
> >>> 2012-11-05/09 Sinsheim, Germany, ApacheCon 2012 Europe (Apache
> OpenOffice track in planning)
> >>>
> >>> I assume other conflicts will come to light, even limiting to
> those with an open-source focus.
> >>>
> >>> - Dennis
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:luispo at gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 10:05
> >>> To: Alberto Barrionuevo
> >>> Cc: Hanssens Bart; Arthur Buijs; Michiel Leenaars;
> robert_weir at us.ibm.com; dennis.hamilton at acm.org; charles-
> h.schulz at arsaperta.com; plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> >>>
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> On 2012-06-24, at 08:46 , Alberto Barrionuevo wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> when are you planning to hold it?
> >>>>
> >>>> Depending on dates, this could be another possibility:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Surely it is more neutral than an OOOconf, and there is space
> for many parallel events in it. The venue is one of the biggest ones
> in Spain, so no problems because rooms. Also, it is near to the
> north of Portugal.
> >>>>
> >>>> This third edition of the event is organized by our Spanish
> association of open source and open standards companies, and usually
> we include other events in it. Of course, it would be open to some
> of you as speakers in the general conference.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would strongly suggest we do not link this or any future ODF
> plugfest to any OO (or implementation-specific) event, including
> AOOi, LibreOffice or whatever.
> >>>
> >>> We have something valuable, in addition to the standard. We have
> independence and impartiality. That's why I would agree with
> Alberto that an event that is not by any stretch linked to any
> specific implementation of ODF be seriously considered. The event is
> also as Alberto describes it: Big, important, and in an area that
> will, in all likelihood, be shockingly pertinent.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> //Alberto.
> >>>
> >>> best
> >>> Louis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> El 23/06/12 12:17, Hanssens Bart escribió:
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was talking to Charles about having a plugfest in Paris or
> Portugal, he suggested Berlin might be interesting, which is fine with
me,
> >>>>> on the condition that it would be like the ODF Plugfest /
> OpenOffice conference in Orvieto: that is, one location, two
> _separate_ events.
> >>>>> (and I do stress "separate" here)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, the idea was _not_ to send our press releases or issue a
> CFP under the LO umbrella...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now, a conference call was to be scheduled next week, and
> Charles kindly offered to provide the teleconf services.
> >>>>> However, we haven't received the conf call meeting request yet
> (but since Charles is getting married, he might have forgotten to send
it)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bart
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl [plugtest-
> organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of Arthur Buijs
[arthur at artietee.nl]
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:28 AM
> >>>>> To: Michiel Leenaars; robert_weir at us.ibm.com; 'Louis Suárez-
> Potts'; dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> >>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> as far as I know we are not planning an ODF Plugfest in Berlin.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Regards/groeten,
> >>>>> Arthur Buijs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>>> To: 'Louis Suárez-Potts'<luispo at gmail.com>;
robert_weir at us.ibm.com;
> >>>>> CC: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org;
> >>>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton<dennis.hamilton at acm.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Fri 22-06-2012 20:27
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in
Berlin?
> >>>>>> I assume that there is no visibility because there had been no
public
> >>>>>> discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The OpenDocumentSociety site and wiki have nothing about a
> Plugfest being
> >>>>>> developed since the April 2012 Brussels one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There has been co-location with an OpenOffice.org conference
> in the past but
> >>>>>> that was at the request of plugfest planners, not vice versa,
> as I recall.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The LibreOffice2012 announcement contains an ODF Plugfest
> link, but it is to an
> >>>>>> odfplugfest.de domain that was used for the last one in
> Berlin. The Call for
> >>>>>> papers does indeed include an ODF Plugfest as a topic/theme/track
area.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I suppose this is one of those, "say it is so that it will
> become so" actions.
> >>>>>> (The form I recently heard this disputed was in "saying your
> [whatever] is
> >>>>>> secure does not make it secure" [;<).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Dennis
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
> >>>>>> [mailto:plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of
> Louis Suárez-Potts
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 10:50
> >>>>>> To: robert_weir at us.ibm.com
> >>>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hm. Bit of a surprise to me, too. We had discussed on the OIC
call
> >>>>>> last Wednesday week the idea of a time frame and possibly
location
> >>>>>> (Europe) but that was it; I had suggested it better we stick with
> >>>>>> really neutral spaces for the plugfest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Louis
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 22 June 2012 13:34,<robert_weir at us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I'm surprised that I'm reading this in the press when no
discussion or
> >>>>>>> proposal has been made on this list, but there appears to be
> another ODF
> >>>>>>> Plugfest in Berlin scheduled for November:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LibreOffice-
> Conference-2012-Call-for-Pape
> >>>>>> rs-announced-1623270.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Or did I miss something?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Rob
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Alberto Barrionuevo, Director
> >>>> Grupo OPENTIA
> >>>> (+34) 918 38 38 58 [t]
> >>>>
> >>>> OPENTIA
> >>>> Ingeniería Informática en Abierto
> >>>> www.opentia.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> >>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> >>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >>
> >> Charles-H. Schulz
> >> Associé / Founding Partner,
> >> Ars Aperta
> >>
> >
> > Charles-H. Schulz
> > Associé / Founding Partner,
> > Ars Aperta
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>
> Charles-H. Schulz
> Associé / Founding Partner,
> Ars Aperta
>
> _______________________________________________
> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>
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