[Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?

Charles-H. Schulz charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com
Sun Jun 24 21:43:30 CEST 2012 

Dennis,

I re-parsed my emails. Lots of  people who are on this mailing list were included in the first discussion; not all of them were.  I now realize the "first" discussion took place on an OpenForum Europe mailing list (and I really don't know why it did, as it should not take place there) but it should not be a reason to claim no one was in the know. IBM people were on that list (the OFE one), Michiel was, others were. You are not on this OFE mailing list, granted; but for many of us this discussion started several two or three weeks ago. I'm sorry if that seems to fall in your inbox abruptly. This being said, I do reiterate that the comments made by some about the so-called neutrality are unwelcome, uncalled for, and pathetic.

Best,
Charles. 


Le 24 juin 2012 à 21:32, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :

> Charles, 
> 
> I am only on this Plugtest list.  That is all I see.  
> 
> If there is fragmentation of where this happens and whatever discussions there are, that is an unfortunate contribution to the opportunity for misunderstanding and miscommunication that has arisen here.  
> 
> I have only seen what is discussed on this list, the one for Plugtest organizing.
> 
> PS: I have reduced the CC list on this reply because the list robot is unhappy about excessive numbers of addressees and requires moderation in that case.  If that means CC to folks who are not subscribers to this list will be lost, that is unfortunate.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:57
> To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; 'Louis Suarez-Potts'; 'Alberto Barrionuevo'; 'Michiel Leenaars'; 'Arthur Buijs'; 'Sophie Gautier'; 'Olivier Hallot'; 'Italo Vignoli'; 'Donald Harbison'
> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Are you on all the Plugfest lists that I am subscribed? I would not see why you wouldn't.  I specifically was invited to organize a plugfest in Paris by Bart (I'm sure that would have raised some eyebrows as well), but did not get any answer from potential venues. Then I made the *proposal* that the LibreOffice Conference host the plugfest in Berlin. So yes, there was a proposal. It was discussed, it seemed welcome, but of course nothing was finalized (hence the rub with the conference website and the press article) and we were/are supposed to have a conference call about it this week, for which I was supposed to invite the plugfest organization committee and schedule the call. Now I don't know whether that would still fly, it seems that we have to wait for IBM to grace us with its stamp of approval or its collar of shame. As things stand here, I'm still waiting for this answer; not that we wait for IBM's authorization for anything, but obviously, we're not going to organize a plugfest if there were no plans by the OpenDoc Society to have one in the first place. Again, it's a pity that the same rotten apples block and question everything that TDF does or does not. 
> 
> Best,
> Charles.
> 
> 
> Le 24 juin 2012 à 20:23, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> 
>> Charles,
>> 
>> First, congratulations on your marriage.  The wedding photograph is wonderful.
>> 
>> I think the breakdown here has to do with the fact that no proposal was made to Plugtest organizers and, as far as I can tell, to the OpenDocument Society.  In contrast, the offer from Microsoft was made to this list.  It was discussed, eventually accepted, and then there was follow-up here, as well as conference calls for organization, etc.  Development of other Plugtests, including the concurrent one at Orvieto, had similar visibility.
>> 
>> That level of communication was missing in this instance.  This happens when such is the case.
>> 
>> - Dennis
>> 
>> PS: I have not seen anything about the press here.  The only indication that has been reported on this list is the LO 2012 Conference announcement and CFP itself.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com] 
>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:06
>> To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
>> Cc: Louis Suarez-Potts; Alberto Barrionuevo; Michiel Leenaars; plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; Arthur Buijs; Sophie Gautier; Olivier Hallot; Italo Vignoli; Donald Harbison
>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
>> 
>> Hello ,
>> 
>> I think there must have been a miscommunication from our side and from the press. The way I can describe it is that the idea of hosting an ODF Plugfest was discussed a bit on the LibreOffice marketing list and as our website team had to open up the conference website for the LibreOffice Conference, they simply copied and pasted the content of what was discussed on the marketing list and put it on the beta website. From that point on, the press (the H) wrote an article based on it. I will see that the mention of an ODF Plugfest gets deleted, since that seems to be interpreted as a grave casus belli by some. 
>> 
>> As for the neutrality... did we organize a plugfest with Microsoft and at Microsoft HQ in Brussels? Because if now some here are complaining that it is a shame that TDF hosts one, then you guys are really losing it by any measurement. I'm appalled that such comments could be made. Yes, we're supposed to be an united front. But it seems that some in this committee will not let one good deed go unpunished. I am frankly becoming sick and tired of this. There's no neutrality here; there are multiple implementations of ODF, and I'm sure we agree that it's a good thing, don't we? So the neutrality argument is weird. It seems to always go one way (TDF should NOT be allowed to organize such events), and it's always raised by the same people. 
>> 
>> Here's my proposal: how about you guys figure the best course of action in between your bruised egos, your hatred feelings and your secret agendas and come back to me some time this week? 
>> TDF will then devise what to do with the proposal we made.
>> 
>> 
>> Charles.
>> 
>> Le 24 juin 2012 à 19:40, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
>> 
>>> At the same time, it is undesirable to conflict with conferences where many of the developers will be attending with respect to their own products, participating in conference development, etc.  It now looks like this:
>>> 
>>> 2012-10-16/19 Berlin, LibreOffice 2012 Conference
>>> 2012-10-18/19 Santiago de Compostela, Spain, LSWC 12
>>> 2012-11-05/09 Sinsheim, Germany, ApacheCon 2012 Europe (Apache OpenOffice track in planning)
>>> 
>>> I assume other conflicts will come to light, even limiting to those with an open-source focus.
>>> 
>>> - Dennis
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:luispo at gmail.com] 
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 10:05
>>> To: Alberto Barrionuevo
>>> Cc: Hanssens Bart; Arthur Buijs; Michiel Leenaars; robert_weir at us.ibm.com; dennis.hamilton at acm.org; charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com; plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
>>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> On 2012-06-24, at 08:46 , Alberto Barrionuevo wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> when are you planning to hold it?
>>>> 
>>>> Depending on dates, this could be another possibility:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.com
>>>> 
>>>> Surely it is more neutral than an OOOconf, and there is space for many parallel events in it. The venue is one of the biggest ones in Spain, so no problems because rooms. Also, it is near to the north of Portugal.
>>>> 
>>>> This third edition of the event is organized by our Spanish association of open source and open standards companies, and usually we include other events in it. Of course, it would be open to some of you as speakers in the general conference.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would strongly suggest we do not link this or any future ODF plugfest to any OO (or implementation-specific) event, including AOOi, LibreOffice or whatever.
>>> 
>>> We have something valuable, in addition to the standard. We have independence and impartiality.  That's why I would agree with Alberto that an event that is not by any stretch linked to any specific implementation of ODF be seriously considered. The event is also as Alberto describes it: Big, important, and in an area that will, in all likelihood, be shockingly pertinent.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> //Alberto.
>>> 
>>> best
>>> Louis
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> El 23/06/12 12:17, Hanssens Bart escribió:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was talking to Charles about having a plugfest in Paris or Portugal, he suggested Berlin might be interesting, which is fine with me,
>>>>> on the condition that it would be like the ODF Plugfest / OpenOffice conference in Orvieto: that is, one location, two _separate_ events.
>>>>> (and I do stress "separate" here)
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, the idea was _not_ to send our press releases or issue a CFP under the LO umbrella...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now, a conference call was to be scheduled next week, and Charles kindly offered to provide the teleconf services.
>>>>> However, we haven't received the conf call meeting request yet (but since Charles is getting married, he might have forgotten to send it)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bart
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl [plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of Arthur Buijs [arthur at artietee.nl]
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:28 AM
>>>>> To: Michiel Leenaars; robert_weir at us.ibm.com; 'Louis Suárez-Potts'; dennis.hamilton at acm.org
>>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> as far as I know we are not planning an ODF Plugfest in Berlin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards/groeten,
>>>>> Arthur Buijs
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>>> To:     'Louis Suárez-Potts'<luispo at gmail.com>; robert_weir at us.ibm.com;
>>>>> CC:     plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org;
>>>>> From:   Dennis E. Hamilton<dennis.hamilton at acm.org>
>>>>> Sent:   Fri 22-06-2012 20:27
>>>>> Subject:        Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
>>>>>> I assume that there is no visibility because there had been no public
>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The OpenDocumentSociety site and wiki have nothing about a Plugfest being
>>>>>> developed since the April 2012 Brussels one.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There has been co-location with an OpenOffice.org conference in the past but
>>>>>> that was at the request of plugfest planners, not vice versa, as I recall.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The LibreOffice2012 announcement contains an ODF Plugfest link, but it is to an
>>>>>> odfplugfest.de domain that was used for the last one in Berlin.  The Call for
>>>>>> papers does indeed include an ODF Plugfest as a topic/theme/track area.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I suppose this is one of those, "say it is so that it will become so" actions.
>>>>>> (The form I recently heard this disputed was in "saying your [whatever] is
>>>>>> secure does not make it secure" [;<).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
>>>>>> [mailto:plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of Louis Suárez-Potts
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 10:50
>>>>>> To: robert_weir at us.ibm.com
>>>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hm. Bit of a surprise to me, too. We had discussed on the OIC call
>>>>>> last Wednesday week the idea of a time frame and possibly location
>>>>>> (Europe) but that was it; I had suggested it better we stick with
>>>>>> really neutral spaces for the plugfest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 22 June 2012 13:34,<robert_weir at us.ibm.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm surprised that I'm reading this in the press when no discussion or
>>>>>>> proposal has been made on this list, but there appears to be another ODF
>>>>>>> Plugfest in Berlin scheduled for November:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LibreOffice-Conference-2012-Call-for-Pape
>>>>>> rs-announced-1623270.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Or did I miss something?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Alberto Barrionuevo, Director
>>>> Grupo OPENTIA
>>>> (+34) 918 38 38 58 [t]
>>>> 
>>>>        OPENTIA
>>>> Ingeniería Informática en Abierto
>>>>     www.opentia.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>> 
>> Charles-H. Schulz
>> Associé / Founding Partner,
>> Ars Aperta
>> 
> 
> Charles-H. Schulz
> Associé / Founding Partner,
> Ars Aperta
> 
> _______________________________________________
> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers

Charles-H. Schulz
Associé / Founding Partner,
Ars Aperta

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