[Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?

Wed Jun 27 09:01:39 CEST 2012

Hi,

In order to build my own view/opinion, can someone point me to the
discussion which has taken place on the OFE mailing list?
I have searched, but I have not found a corresponding mail archive from the
OFE mailing list.

Thx in advance.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann

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Advisory Software Engineer
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E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
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From:	"Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
To:	plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
Date:	26.06.2012 18:00
Subject:	Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
Sent by:	plugtest-organisers-bounces at opendocsociety.org

Don,

It is indeed more than time to move forward. I moved ahead a long time
ago. Please parse the complete exchange, not just on this list (since
obviously at least a good half of the discussion took place on the OFE
mailing list), and you will understand how IBM could have been perceived
to have been in "vehement opposition".
The mere fact that Rob reacted -on the present list- the way he did
shows the level of distrust that's existing among various stakeholders.
Oh, and while you're at it, the "neutrality" argument was indeed made
first by Louis Suarez-Potts then repeated by Rob; unless I'm mistaken,
he's not (yet) an IBM employee. This neutrality argument is at best
frivolous, in its concept (there are multiple ODF implementations out
there, who among us would complain that it's a bad thing?) and in its
application (the last plugfest was done at MSFT's offices). I'm using
the term frivolous here, but I could use other terms highlighting the
amazing display of suspicion IBM has for a major ODF implementor. The
notion that somehow, TDF organizing a plugfest would require a special
level of neutrality displays a clear opposition by IBM. I have described
several times already how you ended up not seeing a proposal on this
list, how such a proposal was discussed outside of it (a collective
mistake), what the proposal is, in simple terms (the LiboCon website).
Is there anything else you need?  Do you really think I would advertise
an event that would not have been agreed upon? Do you or Rob really
question TDF's will to promote ODF as an open standard? If you do, you
don't know me and you don't know TDF at all.

Enough said from my side.

Regards,

Charles.

Le mardi 26 juin 2012 à 23:22 +0800, donald_harbison at us.ibm.com a
écrit :
> Charles,
>
> It's time to move forward. There never was 'vehement' opposition. If
> there was, you would not mind presenting the citation. Correct? Please
> don't turn Rob's request back on him. It should be a simple thing to
> do.
>
> We all care tremendously for the success of ODF and its adoption.
> Interoperability has always been core to the mission.
>
> Why would you think IBM was in 'vehement opposition'?
>
>
> _________________
>
> Don Harbison
>  550 King St
>
> Program Director,
> Apache
> OpenOffice, IBM
> ODF Initiative,
> Software Group
>  Littleton,
> 01460-1250
> Phone:
> +1-978-899-5444
>  Usa
> Mobile:
> +1-978-761-0116
>
>
> e-mail:
> donald_harbison at us.ibm.com
>
>
>
> _________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:        "Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
> To:        plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl,
> Date:        06/26/2012 10:49 PM
> Subject:        Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in
> Berlin?
> Sent by:        plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Le mardi 26 juin 2012 à 10:26 -0400, robert_weir at us.ibm.com a écrit :
> > "Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com> wrote on
> > 06/25/2012 02:17:42 PM:
> >
> > > Rob,
> > > Le 25 juin 2012 à 18:22, robert_weir at us.ibm.com a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > > If the question of neutrality was answered before, that is, in
> > > former plugfests, and addressed in a satisfactory way I don't see
> > > why we should need an extra-layer of neutrality. Besides, you can
> > > ask for instance Doug and Jürgen and they will tell you that they
> > > thoroughly enjoyed being at the first LibreOffice Conference, at
> > > least I think they did, that's what they told me at the time.
> > >
> > > > But this is made more difficult with the inflammatory language
> I'm
> > > reading now, e.g.,
> > > >
> > > >
> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/msg05552.html
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://open.nlnet.nl/pipermail/plugtest-organisers/2012-June/000266.html
> > > >
> > > > It is absurd, for example to claim that I am trying to block
> > > ("vehemently opposed") the LO Plugfest proposal, when a) I have
> not
> > > seen any proposal, and b) I have expressed no opinion on LO
> hosting
> > > a Plugfest.
> > > >
> > > > I think I am owed an apology for this.
> > >
> > > If you're owed an apology then I'm owned at least as much apology
> as
> > > you're requesting Rob (for this and for twenty different other
> > > things), but I don't ask for that much. Let me put it that way.
> If
> > > we manage to get this plugfest through the door and up and
> running
> > > in Berlin, we will have the satisfaction to have worked towards
> the
> > > advancement of open standards and show more than ever an united
> > > front on behalf of ODF.
> > >
> >
> > Charles,
> >
> > You wrote on the LO list that IBM was "vehemently opposed" to
> > LibreOffice hosting a Plugfest:
> >
> > http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/msg05552.html
> >
> > You sent that on Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:23:46 +0200.
> >
> > As anyone can see from reading the list archives
> >
> (
https://open.nlnet.nl/pipermail/plugtest-organisers/2012-June/thread.html)
the only posts from IBM relative to the Plugfest were from me, and all that
I did at that point was to note that a Plugfest had been announced to the
press, though no proposal was every made to this list:  It would have been
irresponsible for a Plugfest Program Committee member not to note this.
> >
> > See:
> >
>
https://open.nlnet.nl/pipermail/plugtest-organisers/2012-June/000259.html
> >
> > I never gave any opinion on the proposal.  To this date I have not
> yet
> > seen any proposal.
> >
> > When asked for details, of why (in your mind) IBM was opposing the
> > Plugfest, you responded on the LibreOffice list :
> >
> > "Their reason is that "in order to avoid any friction, ODF plugfests
> > should take place in neutral venues, for instance not in LibreOffice
> > Conference or AOO conferences". The problem is of course that there
> > has
> > been so far zero AOO conference, and already one LibreOffice
> > Conference.
> > I don't see why it's bad to have an ODF PLugfest at the LibreOffice
> > conference or at any AOO conference, or even KDE Summit, for that
> > matter. There are multiple implementations of ODF out there, and
> it's
> > an
> > advantage, not a problem. But the "neutrality" argument is always
> > pushed
> > in such a way that TDF is the culprit, and I'm getting tired of
> that.
> > "
> >
> > http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/msg05560.html
> >
> > The quote you give there was not something I have seen before.  It
> > certainly has not come from me, or anyone else on this list or
> > anywhere else that I have seen.
> >
> > Could I ask for a citation for your quote?  You are claiming that
> IBM
> > was opposing the Plugfest, a serious charge, one that has now been
> > spread around widely, but to my knowledge no such thing has
> occurred.
> >  If you are aware of some IBMer in some other list or other
> > conversation saying these things, please let me know and I will have
> a
> > talk with them.
> >
>
> Rob,
>
> You never let go of things, don't you?
>
> Best,
> Charles.
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob
> > _______________________________________________
> > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers

--
Charles-H. Schulz
Associé / Partner,
Ars Aperta.

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