[Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Yes. 5pm Berlin-Paris-Rome, 4pm London.

best,
Charles.

Le mardi 26 juin 2012 à 12:37 +0200, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Thursday, 5pm CET would be fine for me.
> As we have 'day light saving time' in Europe I assume Charles meant 5pm
> CEST (GMT+2). Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> 
> --
> Advisory Software Engineer
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> IBM Deutschland
> Beim Strohhause 17
> 20097 Hamburg
> Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
> E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
> Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
> Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart,
> HRB 243294
> 
> 
> 
> From:	"Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
> To:	plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> Date:	26.06.2012 12:04
> Subject:	Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> Sent by:	plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Oliver,
> 
> I had no estimation for the call, but now I have one.
> I'd like to schedule the call for 5 pm CET on Thursday. Would that be
> agreeable to most of us?
> 
> Best,
> Charles.
> 
> Le lundi 25 juin 2012 à 17:00 +0200, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > Good to see that things are coming back to its normal mailing list
> > behavior.
> > I hope nobody feels offended that I, as an IBMer, is writing a post to
> this
> > mailing list.
> >
> > Thanks Charles for the information about how the announcement of a
> possible
> > ODF Plugfest happened.
> >
> > Personally, I feel a little bit disappointed that the people who are
> > involved in the former discussions are not realizing the "ODF Plugfest
> > community" which had been built here and on <plugtest at opendocsociety.org>
> > over the last years.
> > But I also feel that mistakes always happen, esp. when too much digital
> > media streams are involved. Thus, let us learn from our mistakes and
> > continue here with a possible next ODF Plugfest.
> >
> > Charles, do you already have a time estimation for the planned call on
> > Thursday? I am asking, because I want to attend and if its conflicting
> this
> > my calendar, I need to arrange certain stuff to be able to call-in. Thx
> in
> > advance.
> >
> >
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
> > Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> >
> > --
> > Advisory Software Engineer
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >
> > IBM Deutschland
> > Beim Strohhause 17
> > 20097 Hamburg
> > Phone: +49-40-6389-1415
> > E-Mail: orwitt at de.ibm.com
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >
> > IBM Deutschland Research & Development GmbH / Vorsitzende des
> > Aufsichtsrats: Martina Koederitz
> > Geschäftsführung: Dirk Wittkopp
> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen / Registergericht: Amtsgericht
> Stuttgart,
> > HRB 243294
> >
> >
> >
> > From:		 "Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
> > To:		 plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > Date:		 25.06.2012 15:40
> > Subject:		 Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> > Sent by:		 plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > It's not a matter of making it more obvious. It's a problem of list
> > hopping, for the lack of a better word. People who tend to be more or
> > less on the same lists start discussing one topic on one mailing list,
> > and end up on another one.
> >
> > I summarized what has been discussed or how it has happened. It started
> > with Bart asking me to investigate the possibility of a plugfest in
> > Paris. My investigations for a local venue didn't turn well. I thus
> > proposed to have a plugfest in Berlin during the LibreOffice Conference
> > where we will have an ODF track. It was welcome, and we were about to
> > schedule a call on Thursday. Then there was this publishing mistake on
> > the LiboCon website. You seem to have landed at that point.
> >
> > Anything else?
> >
> > Charles.
> >
> > Le lundi 25 juin 2012 à 09:22 -0400, robert_weir at us.ibm.com a écrit :
> > > This is the plugfest organizers list.  This is where we organize
> > > plugfests.  If a different list name would make this more obvious, I'm
> > > open to suggestions.
> > >
> > > Since we cannot undo this error, can someone at least outline what was
> > > proposed and/or agreed upon?  Most of us here are still in the dark
> > > and hearing this for the first time.
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > > plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl wrote on 06/24/2012 03:43:30 PM:
> > >
> > > > From: "Charles-H. Schulz" <charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com>
> > > > To: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org,
> > > Dennis.hamilton at acm.org,
> > > > Date: 06/24/2012 03:44 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> > > > Sent by: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
> > > >
> > > > Dennis,
> > > >
> > > > I re-parsed my emails. Lots of  people who are on this mailing list
> > > > were included in the first discussion; not all of them were.  I now
> > > > realize the "first" discussion took place on an OpenForum Europe
> > > > mailing list (and I really don't know why it did, as it should not
> > > > take place there) but it should not be a reason to claim no one was
> > > > in the know. IBM people were on that list (the OFE one), Michiel
> > > > was, others were. You are not on this OFE mailing list, granted; but
> > > > for many of us this discussion started several two or three weeks
> > > > ago. I'm sorry if that seems to fall in your inbox abruptly. This
> > > > being said, I do reiterate that the comments made by some about the
> > > > so-called neutrality are unwelcome, uncalled for, and pathetic.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Charles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le 24 juin 2012 à 21:32, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > Charles,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am only on this Plugtest list.  That is all I see.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is fragmentation of where this happens and whatever
> > > > discussions there are, that is an unfortunate contribution to the
> > > > opportunity for misunderstanding and miscommunication that has
> > > arisen here.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have only seen what is discussed on this list, the one for
> > > > Plugtest organizing.
> > > > >
> > > > > PS: I have reduced the CC list on this reply because the list
> > > > robot is unhappy about excessive numbers of addressees and requires
> > > > moderation in that case.  If that means CC to folks who are not
> > > > subscribers to this list will be lost, that is unfortunate.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Dennis
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:57
> > > > > To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> > > > > Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; 'Louis Suarez-Potts';
> > > > 'Alberto Barrionuevo'; 'Michiel Leenaars'; 'Arthur Buijs'; 'Sophie
> > > > Gautier'; 'Olivier Hallot'; 'Italo Vignoli'; 'Donald Harbison'
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis,
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you on all the Plugfest lists that I am subscribed? I would
> > > > not see why you wouldn't.  I specifically was invited to organize a
> > > > plugfest in Paris by Bart (I'm sure that would have raised some
> > > > eyebrows as well), but did not get any answer from potential venues.
> > > > Then I made the *proposal* that the LibreOffice Conference host the
> > > > plugfest in Berlin. So yes, there was a proposal. It was discussed,
> > > > it seemed welcome, but of course nothing was finalized (hence the
> > > > rub with the conference website and the press article) and we were/
> > > > are supposed to have a conference call about it this week, for which
> > > > I was supposed to invite the plugfest organization committee and
> > > > schedule the call. Now I don't know whether that would still fly, it
> > > > seems that we have to wait for IBM to grace us with its stamp of
> > > > approval or its collar of shame. As things stand here, I'm still
> > > > waiting for this answer; not that we wait for IBM's authorization
> > > > for anything, but obviously, we're not going to organize a plugfest
> > > > if there were no plans by the OpenDoc Society to have one in the
> > > > first place. Again, it's a pity that the same rotten apples block
> > > > and question everything that TDF does or does not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Charles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le 24 juin 2012 à 20:23, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >> Charles,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> First, congratulations on your marriage.  The wedding photograph
> > > > is wonderful.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think the breakdown here has to do with the fact that no
> > > > proposal was made to Plugtest organizers and, as far as I can tell,
> > > > to the OpenDocument Society.  In contrast, the offer from Microsoft
> > > > was made to this list.  It was discussed, eventually accepted, and
> > > > then there was follow-up here, as well as conference calls for
> > > > organization, etc.  Development of other Plugtests, including the
> > > > concurrent one at Orvieto, had similar visibility.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That level of communication was missing in this instance.  This
> > > > happens when such is the case.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Dennis
> > > > >>
> > > > >> PS: I have not seen anything about the press here.  The only
> > > > indication that has been reported on this list is the LO 2012
> > > > Conference announcement and CFP itself.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Charles-H. Schulz [mailto:charles-h.schulz at arsaperta.com]
> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:06
> > > > >> To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> > > > >> Cc: Louis Suarez-Potts; Alberto Barrionuevo; Michiel Leenaars;
> > > > plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org; Arthur Buijs; Sophie
> > > > Gautier; Olivier Hallot; Italo Vignoli; Donald Harbison
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in Berlin?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello ,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think there must have been a miscommunication from our side and
> > > > from the press. The way I can describe it is that the idea of
> > > > hosting an ODF Plugfest was discussed a bit on the LibreOffice
> > > > marketing list and as our website team had to open up the conference
> > > > website for the LibreOffice Conference, they simply copied and
> > > > pasted the content of what was discussed on the marketing list and
> > > > put it on the beta website. From that point on, the press (the H)
> > > > wrote an article based on it. I will see that the mention of an ODF
> > > > Plugfest gets deleted, since that seems to be interpreted as a grave
> > > > casus belli by some.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As for the neutrality... did we organize a plugfest with
> > > > Microsoft and at Microsoft HQ in Brussels? Because if now some here
> > > > are complaining that it is a shame that TDF hosts one, then you guys
> > > > are really losing it by any measurement. I'm appalled that such
> > > > comments could be made. Yes, we're supposed to be an united front.
> > > > But it seems that some in this committee will not let one good deed
> > > > go unpunished. I am frankly becoming sick and tired of this. There's
> > > > no neutrality here; there are multiple implementations of ODF, and
> > > > I'm sure we agree that it's a good thing, don't we? So the
> > > > neutrality argument is weird. It seems to always go one way (TDF
> > > > should NOT be allowed to organize such events), and it's always
> > > > raised by the same people.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Here's my proposal: how about you guys figure the best course of
> > > > action in between your bruised egos, your hatred feelings and your
> > > > secret agendas and come back to me some time this week?
> > > > >> TDF will then devise what to do with the proposal we made.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Charles.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Le 24 juin 2012 à 19:40, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit :
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> At the same time, it is undesirable to conflict with conferences
> > > > where many of the developers will be attending with respect to their
> > > > own products, participating in conference development, etc.  It now
> > > > looks like this:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> 2012-10-16/19 Berlin, LibreOffice 2012 Conference
> > > > >>> 2012-10-18/19 Santiago de Compostela, Spain, LSWC 12
> > > > >>> 2012-11-05/09 Sinsheim, Germany, ApacheCon 2012 Europe (Apache
> > > > OpenOffice track in planning)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I assume other conflicts will come to light, even limiting to
> > > > those with an open-source focus.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> - Dennis
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:luispo at gmail.com]
> > > > >>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 10:05
> > > > >>> To: Alberto Barrionuevo
> > > > >>> Cc: Hanssens Bart; Arthur Buijs; Michiel Leenaars;
> > > > robert_weir at us.ibm.com; dennis.hamilton at acm.org; charles-
> > > > h.schulz at arsaperta.com; plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in
> > > Berlin?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> All,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On 2012-06-24, at 08:46 , Alberto Barrionuevo wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> Hi all,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> when are you planning to hold it?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Depending on dates, this could be another possibility:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.com
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Surely it is more neutral than an OOOconf, and there is space
> > > > for many parallel events in it. The venue is one of the biggest ones
> > > > in Spain, so no problems because rooms. Also, it is near to the
> > > > north of Portugal.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This third edition of the event is organized by our Spanish
> > > > association of open source and open standards companies, and usually
> > > > we include other events in it. Of course, it would be open to some
> > > > of you as speakers in the general conference.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I would strongly suggest we do not link this or any future ODF
> > > > plugfest to any OO (or implementation-specific) event, including
> > > > AOOi, LibreOffice or whatever.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> We have something valuable, in addition to the standard. We have
> > > > independence and impartiality.  That's why I would agree with
> > > > Alberto that an event that is not by any stretch linked to any
> > > > specific implementation of ODF be seriously considered. The event is
> > > > also as Alberto describes it: Big, important, and in an area that
> > > > will, in all likelihood, be shockingly pertinent.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Best,
> > > > >>>> //Alberto.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> best
> > > > >>> Louis
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> El 23/06/12 12:17, Hanssens Bart escribió:
> > > > >>>>> Hi,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I was talking to Charles about having a plugfest in Paris or
> > > > Portugal, he suggested Berlin might be interesting, which is fine
> > > with me,
> > > > >>>>> on the condition that it would be like the ODF Plugfest /
> > > > OpenOffice conference in Orvieto: that is, one location, two
> > > > _separate_ events.
> > > > >>>>> (and I do stress "separate" here)
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> So, the idea was _not_ to send our press releases or issue a
> > > > CFP under the LO umbrella...
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Now, a conference call was to be scheduled next week, and
> > > > Charles kindly offered to provide the teleconf services.
> > > > >>>>> However, we haven't received the conf call meeting request yet
> > > > (but since Charles is getting married, he might have forgotten to
> > > send it)
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Bart
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> ________________________________________
> > > > >>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl [plugtest-
> > > > organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of Arthur Buijs
> > > [arthur at artietee.nl]
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:28 AM
> > > > >>>>> To: Michiel Leenaars; robert_weir at us.ibm.com; 'Louis Suárez-
> > > > Potts'; dennis.hamilton at acm.org
> > > > >>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in
> > > Berlin?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hello,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> as far as I know we are not planning an ODF Plugfest in
> > > Berlin.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> Regards/groeten,
> > > > >>>>> Arthur Buijs
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -----Original message-----
> > > > >>>>> To:     'Louis Suárez-Potts'<luispo at gmail.com>;
> > > robert_weir at us.ibm.com;
> > > > >>>>> CC:     plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org;
> > > > >>>>> From:   Dennis E. Hamilton<dennis.hamilton at acm.org>
> > > > >>>>> Sent:   Fri 22-06-2012 20:27
> > > > >>>>> Subject:        Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest
> > > in Berlin?
> > > > >>>>>> I assume that there is no visibility because there had been
> > > no public
> > > > >>>>>> discussion.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> The OpenDocumentSociety site and wiki have nothing about a
> > > > Plugfest being
> > > > >>>>>> developed since the April 2012 Brussels one.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> There has been co-location with an OpenOffice.org conference
> > > > in the past but
> > > > >>>>>> that was at the request of plugfest planners, not vice versa,
> > > > as I recall.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> The LibreOffice2012 announcement contains an ODF Plugfest
> > > > link, but it is to an
> > > > >>>>>> odfplugfest.de domain that was used for the last one in
> > > > Berlin.  The Call for
> > > > >>>>>> papers does indeed include an ODF Plugfest as a
> > > topic/theme/track area.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I suppose this is one of those, "say it is so that it will
> > > > become so" actions.
> > > > >>>>>> (The form I recently heard this disputed was in "saying your
> > > > [whatever] is
> > > > >>>>>> secure does not make it secure" [;<).
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> - Dennis
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>> From: plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>>> [mailto:plugtest-organisers-bounces at nlnet.nl] On Behalf Of
> > > > Louis Suárez-Potts
> > > > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 10:50
> > > > >>>>>> To: robert_weir at us.ibm.com
> > > > >>>>>> Cc: plugtest-organisers at opendocsociety.org
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Plugtest-org] Evidently another Plugfest in
> > > Berlin?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hm. Bit of a surprise to me, too. We had discussed on the OIC
> > > call
> > > > >>>>>> last Wednesday week the idea of a time frame and possibly
> > > location
> > > > >>>>>> (Europe) but that was it; I had suggested it better we stick
> > > with
> > > > >>>>>> really neutral spaces for the plugfest.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Louis
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On 22 June 2012 13:34,<robert_weir at us.ibm.com>  wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> I'm surprised that I'm reading this in the press when no
> > > discussion or
> > > > >>>>>>> proposal has been made on this list, but there appears to be
> > > > another ODF
> > > > >>>>>>> Plugfest in Berlin scheduled for November:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LibreOffice-
> > > > Conference-2012-Call-for-Pape
> > > > >>>>>> rs-announced-1623270.html
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Or did I miss something?
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> -Rob
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>>>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>>>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> Alberto Barrionuevo, Director
> > > > >>>> Grupo OPENTIA
> > > > >>>> (+34) 918 38 38 58 [t]
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>        OPENTIA
> > > > >>>> Ingeniería Informática en Abierto
> > > > >>>>     www.opentia.com
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > >>> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > >>> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Charles-H. Schulz
> > > > >> Associé / Founding Partner,
> > > > >> Ars Aperta
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Charles-H. Schulz
> > > > > Associé / Founding Partner,
> > > > > Ars Aperta
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > >
> > > > Charles-H. Schulz
> > > > Associé / Founding Partner,
> > > > Ars Aperta
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >
> >
> > --
> > Charles-H. Schulz
> > Associé / Partner,
> > Ars Aperta.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > plugtest-organisers mailing list
> > plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> > https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> 
> 
> --
> Charles-H. Schulz
> Associé / Partner,
> Ars Aperta.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> plugtest-organisers mailing list
> plugtest-organisers at nlnet.nl
> https://open.nlnet.nl/mailman/listinfo/plugtest-organisers
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Associé / Partner,
Ars Aperta.